Dino X to tackle Dinoflagellates (2025)

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Jan 12, 2016
  • #1

This is a spin off of the following thread i have started:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/...Brown-sand-diatoms-Can-t-get-rid-of-it!!-HELP

I had really bad dino on my sand (luckily not rockwork!) and have done the following to tackle it:

Tank looks better after the following:
- Siphoning out 90% of sand, cleaning the sand and returning it to the display
- Reduced the red and green on my lights right down.
- Bringing phosphates back up using pellet food and no water changes.

I'll give it a week,

Next action will be (keen to avoid):
- Blackout
- Dino X
- adding back good bacteria (Ultra bio).

I want to avoid the blackout and Dino X but may have little choice.

Any experience of Dino X? I have seen some threads but info is limited. I want to know of adverse effects, what i should do with my active carbon, nitrate reactor, skimmer etc....

Many thanks in advance

H

HPG1

Cleaner Shrimp
  • Jan 13, 2016
  • #2

I had a dino problem which despite regular siphoning etc was rapidly spreading over sandbed and rocks (tried the good bacteria route with no success). Used Algae X - after 3 treatments it was completely wiped out (you need to siphon out the dead dino's). Some SPS refused to extend for a while but have now recovered and LPS were a bit moody for an hour or two but otherwise unaffected. Likewise my clam. I removed all phosphate/nitrate medias and stopped dosing but left the skimmers running. Also quarantined a %age of my chaeto just in case but in the end the main bulk was hardly affected (maybe because I only needed to treat 3 times). Once all done i increased amount and frequency of water changes and then added back medias and dosing. Didn't want to go down this route but the dino was threatening my SPS so lesser of two evils in my view and todate, no obvious ill effects. Good luck

N

Nano Rob

Clownfish
  • Jan 13, 2016
  • #3

Cant really help other than to say that my tank was doing ok, with low nitrates and phosphates, but I foolishly decided I wanted lower! I started to use NOPOX and within a few days I was getting unreadable results on the test kits. However, at the same time I started to get Dinos.

I stopped using NOPOX 3 days ago but last night I had an oily film on the water, along with bubbles sitting in the film. It reminded me of a bubble nest that Siamese Fighters make. The dinos are starting to encroach on my Torch LPS and my Star Polyps.

To early to tell if stopping NOPOX will solve my problem, but I was really upset that after 10 years of having the tank, and 3 house moves, this is the first time it has happened.

M

Markodeniro

Clownfish
  • Jan 13, 2016
  • #4

I'm currently on treatment 10 of dino x. Both cleaner and peppermint shrimps have disappeared, probably dead and eaten by now. I have a sand sifting star seems fine clam, and Duncan ok, although dinos wrap around my Xenia head and zoas so it's still a nightmare, to be honest I'm not sure if it is doing much, the instructions say you should keep white light on max 6 hours and blue 12 hours. With the lack of light alone helps the dinos die off, I think I am winning now as my cheato is getting bigger and outcompeting it. Try cutting feeding to every 2 - 3 days or so and try lights off for a day you will see a vast improvement before you try dino x!

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Jan 15, 2016
  • #5

thanks all, very useful! Exactly what i was after.

I started the first dose last night after lights went out (turned off nitrate reactor and fluidised reactors - carbon + rowa phos). Left Skimmer running (gave it a complete clean before starting the treatment to help with efficiency).

After replacing my sand bed the patches of dino were really small but still starting to take hold on the sand bed again, so i stirred the sand bed up to help get the dino into the water column. I've left the filter sock because once vaporised/broken up the skimmer should hopefully take it in. Fingers crossed!

As a side note - another reefer picked up on my sump having a sand bed stating it was unnecessary. I also removed all of this sand and gave the sump a thorough clean before starting the treatment. That sand bed catching detritus may have caused my nitrate/phos spike in the first place.

@HPG1 - Agree, i didn't want to black out as i'd heard of fish having ill effects (infections due to immune system going down). Also prolonged dark can't be too good for the corals (luckily i only have a few small SPSs). I'll do 3 doses and then assess. Hopefully i can have the same luck as you removing this algae! I'll do the water changes and replace the media as you recommend after (hopefully) day 6...

@Nanorob - are you using Dino X or NoPoX to solve this? I don't think NoPoX will do it, you may have put NoPoX by mistake. I made the same mistake, using NoPoX and Rowaphos to remove all nitrate and phos. Shocked teh system and hello Dinos!! Good luck with yours.

@Markodeniro - Thanks for the info (and the help you provided on the other thread!). I reduced my red and green light right down which should help control algae. Will give the 24hr of darkness a go as part of this DinoX treatment. I was worried about my boxer shrimp but catching him was impossible, in he end I thought that snagging him on something could so more damage than this chemical (small number of doses). Hopefully he survives! If i need to treat past 3 doses i'll try again to catch him given that will move into the critical level for him.

I'll provide an update in 6 days!

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Jan 18, 2016
  • #6

As an update - after 2 doses the Dino seems under control. It hasn't come back in a thick mass. Just small dots of brown on the sand.

I tested these bits in a glass, as suggested in another tread and after the water was clear, adding light didn't cause the dino to bond and form colonies. Thus suggesting it's not Dino...could be diatoms from dino die off. Not 100% sure but looks good!

I'll do my 3rd dose tonight and provide a picture. Will also do a 24hr black out as a precaution (admittedly maybe this should have been done before I started my chemical solution with the dinoX!).

Cheato is fine as is my boxer shrimp.

H

HPG1

Cleaner Shrimp
  • Jan 18, 2016
  • #7

Sounds like your winning. Couple of small clarifications from my experience (i) I stopped after 3 doses only because the dino was completely gone from the sand/rocks (no sign of slime or tell tale bubbles and lots of dustlike residue). I would continue dosing until you get to that point if you can otherwise it will probably come straight back (ii) I didn't add the media back until 5 days after the last dose (and roughly 25% water change) to ensure that any remaining dino in the water column was killed off/removed. Its hard waiting to get back to normal but one aggressive cycle of treatment is probably much less damaging than multiple ones

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Jan 19, 2016
  • #8

Agree, may well need more. I just thought the 3 doses would be a good bench mark then assess if still there.

I did the 3rd dose last night following a clean up of the sand. I've now also turned off the lights and covered the tank (plan to do this for 48hrs).

Here are some pics:

After the first two doses (looks like dino but not behaving like dino...):

Rock work is completely free

Siphoned the sand and had a general clean up (lights dimming by this point):

Moved chaeto higher (using a basket) and lowered the light - this was done 3 days ago to help out compete the Dino. The light is now off for 48hrs.

Lights out and tank covered (this duvet cover is black on the otherside):

Let's see where we are in a couple of days.

I will follow your advice and do the water change and wait a few days before turning on the media. The nitrate reactor is full of hydrogen sulfide now so will need to be completely drained and cleaned... that's a different story!

Thanks for all advice

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Jan 21, 2016
  • #9

Cover is off and lights returned to normal schedule (but still with red and green reduced).

Sand looks pristine, rock work as before (clear of any algae). Fish all ok and feeding.

I have done 4 doses and will continue to do 6 to make sure all dinos are blitzed.

I will provide photos this evening.

Tastyfish

Great White Shark
  • Jan 21, 2016
  • #10

BEZ_011 said:

Cover is off and lights returned to normal schedule (but still with red and green reduced).

Sand looks pristine, rock work as before (clear of any algae). Fish all ok and feeding.

I have done 4 doses and will continue to do 6 to make sure all dinos are blitzed.

I will provide photos this evening.

Personally I would go blue-only for a week or more. Dino's wont be able to use much of this light, but your corals and fish will appreciate it. White, red, violet and green light spectrums will be appreciated by any surviving dinos.

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Jan 21, 2016
  • #11

So far so good!

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Jan 21, 2016
  • #12

no visible algae but fish have white spot after the blackout- :-(

M

Markodeniro

Clownfish
  • Feb 2, 2016
  • #13

How is the battle going? My dinos are still around after using up the bottle of dino x. However in much smaller quantities I built a diy nitrate reactor I found on a thread on here that has also helped with reducing nutrients on top of my cheato maybe an idea if yours continues?

Simon Davey

Staff member

Help Team

  • Feb 4, 2016
  • #14

This is a good thread, lots of info.
I'm a little confused though.
Some parts of the thread suggest low nutrients encourage Dino's?

Tastyfish

Great White Shark
  • Feb 4, 2016
  • #15

There's loads of contradicting info, essentially, most dinoflagellates we worry about need light and nutrients. Dinos can thrive in low nitrate where phosphate and light are present and multiply rapidly to fill a gap and take advantage before other organisms can do so.

Some have taken this to mean that they don't like high nitrates, however I believe this is flawed logic, demonstrated by a number of reefers failing to deal with them by using the "dirty method".

They are tough and adaptable so you need to hit from multiple angles and ensure you have a balance of other organisms in place to ensure there is no gap for them to take advantage of.

Im certainly no fan of miracles in bottles alone as they will not address the underlying causes.

Simon Davey

Staff member

Help Team

  • Feb 4, 2016
  • #16

Ahhhh, right, thanks Rob.
I recently got very lucky.
I had a serious issue and didn't actually realise what it was until it was too late, it was all over my rockwork.
The luck was clearing it up with a solid 72 hour black out, it worked a treat.
I'm going to buy a cheap external filter to vacuum the rockwork regularly, I'm thing of a cable tie holding a toothbrush onto the intake Dino X to tackle Dinoflagellates (24)

Tastyfish said:

There's loads of contradicting info, essentially, most dinoflagellates we worry about need light and nutrients. Dinos can thrive in low nitrate where phosphate and light are present and multiply rapidly to fill a gap and take advantage before other organisms can do so.

Some have taken this to mean that they don't like high nitrates, however I believe this is flawed logic, demonstrated by a number of reefers failing to deal with them by using the "dirty method".

They are tough and adaptable so you need to hit from multiple angles and ensure you have a balance of other organisms in place to ensure there is no gap for them to take advantage of.

Im certainly no fan of miracles in bottles alone as they will not address the underlying causes.

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Feb 4, 2016
  • #17

Markodeniro said:

How is the battle going? My dinos are still around after using up the bottle of dino x. However in much smaller quantities I built a diy nitrate reactor I found on a thread on here that has also helped with reducing nutrients on top of my cheato maybe an idea if yours continues?

No sign off any Dinos since the multi pronged attack. I agree with Tastyfish in that high nitrates and phos can encourage Dinos. The algae is a pretty hardy one and can also appear in pretty clean systems. Swings in params can cause it to appear as was the case (i believe) in my situation when i stripped phosphates.

Sand is now really clean with the odd small brown area (not dinos, more like diatoms which come and go). Nassarius snails do a good job of stirring it up all up.
My sump is spotless and I have a healthy bunch of chaeto in there which seems to be out-competing pretty much all algae. I think once dino is removed increasing the competition this way/with a reactor is a winner.

Personally I've removed my nitrate reactor to allow my Chaeto to get a good hold. I do still run a carbon reactor. All seems good for now but if params change for whatever reason (e.g. if fish grow) i may well re-add it.

Sadly i did lose a couple of fish (yellow tang and flame angel) to the white spot. This will have already been present and took hold during the blackout as fish hadn't been eating much and were stressed.

In general very pleased to see the back of the dinos for now! Params in check. Glass gets hardly any algae on it and only needs cleaning every 4 days, used to be almost daily!

Summary of Dino treatment to recap -

- cleaned out my sump (removed sand and live rock - all it did was trap detritus)
- siphoned out DT sand and cleaned it. Put it back.
- reduced feeding to once per day
- treated tank with dino x
- reduced red and green light to no more than 12% (i have kept this setting on my ecotech radions as the light actually looks really nice and corals happy)
- 48hr black out (thinking about it, it may have been closer to 72hrs).
- Stirring up sand and siphoning ditritus into filter sock in sump.

Key is to not only tackle to Dinos head on but also the problem source!

Dino gone!

Last edited:

M

Markodeniro

Clownfish
  • Feb 4, 2016
  • #18

That's good news! Sorry to hear about the fish though. Sorry Im not sure if I confused things above I just meant that building a nitrate reactor has helped reduce nutrients therefore outcompeting the dinos. Dino X to tackle Dinoflagellates (26)

BEZ_011

Clownfish
  • Feb 5, 2016
  • #19

Markodeniro said:

That's good news! Sorry to hear about the fish though. Sorry Im not sure if I confused things above I just meant that building a nitrate reactor has helped reduce nutrients therefore outcompeting the dinos. Dino X to tackle Dinoflagellates (28)

#
No worries - totally got you. The nitrate reactor would certainly help but I've found that having a reactor + Chaeto can stunt the Chaeto. I'm keen to go down the Chaeto route at this stage to maximise pods. May well re-install it if nitrates go up Dino X to tackle Dinoflagellates (29)

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